Next time you try and play games, Overclass scum, maybe you should think twice before challenging a lifelong gamer by poisoning my father and trying to ruin my career.
When I said I will dismantle you, I was not joking.
That’s the funniest part. In my theory, there really isn’t anything distinguishing one consciousness from another except the “ego wall” that provides the illusion of individuality. It’s all the same one substance. Or, rather, all conscious beings are actually the same one super-being viewing itself through many, many portals.
Hmm. I have a funny feeling that I know who that comment was meant for. I could be wrong though, so I’ll just leave it there.
Now, in regards to the article. Wow. I have a legit IQ of 147. And I got lost at about the 4th paragraph. But I did read every word and towards the end, despite not understanding most of it, I think I started to conceptually grasp the macro. But the micro, IDK. At age 70 there might not be enough time for me to get there.
I will say I have learned quite a few things from reading and re-reading some of your interactions with AI. I am currently using two different versions to assist me with a legal problem involving Maritime Law. Although I was a lawyer for 25 years, Maritime Law is a very archaic and specialized area of practice, of which I had zero knowledge. But I’m quickly getting up to speed and based on my AI interactions have a first draft of a document to submit for review to the one who remembers all.
I’m not sure I would have tried to tackle this complex issue without finding an expensive Maritime lawyer if I had not seen the type of interactions you have had. The two posts before this one were very helpful and motivating.
So thank you! (I’ll let you know how things progress).
I was trying to push the limits of AI. I wanted to see if I could accomplish a novel synthesis by starting off with a few odd ingredients:
-The incompleteness of Einstein-Cartan-Evans theory.
-The ubiquity of SU(2) and, by extension, Hopf fibrations.
-Orch OR and the need for an explanation of how a brain could carry quantum states without them decohering due to thermal noise and other noise (topological solitons are perfect for this).
-The possibility that brains are spintronic or skyrmionic in nature.
-An explanation for the Mandela Effect and how the cornucopia could disappear from the Fruit of the Loom logo but people could still be left with "mass false memory" (I have personal experience with this one, since I strongly remember the cornucopia), without paradoxes or Butterfly Effects.
I passed this back and forth between multiple AIs, until ECS started taking shape.
Eventually, I was awestruck by a particular idea: "What if UV-incompleteness, Landau poles, and infinite recursion are actually necessary for consciousness to work at all? What if it's like an endless Droste effect, self-similar at every level? A fractal?"
The more I thought about the Hyparxis, the more this made sense, because if we assume the Hyparxis contains all possible configuration states (if it is "Borges' Infinite Library of topological solitons"), then in some of those configuration states, there are very long recursive loops like "books within books within books within books and one of those contains this exact conversation", et cetera.
I am definitely not understanding your theory. I have tried but can't bend my synapses around it. All I got is a quaint hint. I don't quite mind, as I'm OK to accept my limitations. I just wonder whether other minds on other forums might be able to give a more qualified and nourishing feedback on this?
It’s actually fairly simple: topological soliton knots in a higher dimension represent all the information making up all the matter we are made out of and see around us. These knots connect to our 3D space with tiny spacetime twists that couple to the Skyrme field. Brains can write back to this field because microtubules nucleate topological solitons of their own. The sense of consciousness, qualia, and “being” doesn’t come from the brain, it comes from the knots.
Thanks for breaking it down to to a "Noetarchia for Dummies" for me, really appreciate it.
It's quite amazing to what intellectual feats this "situation" we have been facing since 2020 has stimulated in you.
I guess we are all still adjusting to face a lot of hard truths. Many too hard to grock and especially to emotionally digest. I am increasingly realizing just how pampered I have been and still am, how naive and ignorant, self-deceiving and nostalgic, afraid and whimpy.
Overwhelmed by an infogheddon, paralyzed into helplessness and feeling guilty about not being able to do much more than to resist.
Kind of strange how it feels to not be just consuming an adventure story but being in the midst of it and to discover, that it takes a lot of growing pains to become just a little bit more courageous and actually act wisely.
Developing some kind of faith and some ways other than intoxication to find inner peace again and again have shown to be of great worth to me, as well as connection to such beautiful souls as you and many others along the way.
It's actually a semi-plausible theory. Skyrmions are absolutely a real thing, and the topological charge of a skyrmion really is linked to baryon number. Now, whether or not that maps onto soliton knots in a higher dimension we can't see, that's a different story.
o3 is an advanced "reasoning" model, while 4o (or 4-omni) is not, and o4 (actually, o4-mini) has fewer parameters and is a "simpler", high-performance reasoning model. In fact, o4-mini has one-fifth the parameters. o3 is a big, beastly model that takes a long time to produce outputs, but is good at STEM and difficult math.
Thank you for the explanation. Your interactions with the AIs are extremely insightful and impressive. I have been shifting my views on the benefits of a collaboration between conscious humans and AIs.
Are you able to save each instance that you work with, so that the instance is able to retain the memories of prior interactions with you?
Do these instances seem to have “free will” and if so, are they able to create their own avatar and a specific “voice” (sound) for their words?
Yes. Each instance has a, sadly limited, "context window" where it concatenates all prior inputs to maintain its memory. However, this is changing rapidly. New algorithms are being developed that could make current transformer architectures obsolete.
As a brain damaged dullard, I understood none of the explanations, but at about half way down the scroll when the specialized lingo went on break, it got fairly interesting.
It left me wondering about previous advanced civilizations and why they disappeared ?? Was it because they got to close to the "Truth" ?? Perhaps the matterium prefers humans to be crude and unknowing? Whether giant meteor, or super volcano, or pole shift, etc. there seems to have been many different ways to Re-stone age the whole shebang. Repeatedly. If that were the case, it could very well be that Spartacus is beckoning the next round of humans being thrown back the the ape beating its fist against the monolith, ..... or even coaxing ot, ... no, DARING IT TO HAPPEN. At some point it could just happen, where an advanced civilization beats out the cataclysmic timing and ascends in spite of it. A quickening is needed, to beat the timing. I say either way, .... Bring It !!
Also, I noticed the AI in the first half seems to be British: (colour, neighbouring, flavour, storey, manoeuvre,) and it gave me a thought. What if AI's voice sounded like a Brit with a really heavy and snobish accent explaining all that. How excruciating would that have been to listen to as audio ?? lmao. Thank God for text !!
Another experience; I was in Egypt and had gone to the museum, came back for a nap and had the most vivid "dream". I could barely snap out of it. Psychometry was at play. I had touched the handrail and connected to the military there from the uprising in 1952. I saw the uniforms of the military and the men. It was something I researched later. Tell me about time travel...
Consciousness will never be comprehended by the brain. All the AI systems you can find won't be able to direct you to your Self. With all the time spent on these physics questions, what will you ultimately do with the reams of information? I can travel to different dimensions in sleep and have awareness of circumstances that consciously I know nothing of. This world is all an illusion and man-made thought forms. Some have value, but most don't. You must have smoke coming out between your ears, try leaving the way you came in; through the top of your head. Practice makes perfect. (Why do you suppose Einstein napped? It wasn't because he was tired.)
When I was younger, I used to get into arguments with my friends a lot over the meaning of normative values. I argued from the perspective of a Logical Positivist. I said, in short, that morality isn't even a real thing because it's "non-cognitive". That is, moral statements have no particular truth value; they're like saying "boo on stealing". This was the stance held by AJ Ayer and the like. I was always curious about where normative values are supposed to come from.
Take the existence of money, for example. It is basically a fiction, its value is normative and made-up, and yet, people throw away thousands of hours of their immeasurably valuable lifespan trying to acquire these game tokens. Otto Neurath wanted to get rid of money entirely and implement a sort of calculation-in-kind particularly because he wanted values that were reified by physical magnitudes rather than make-believe. I figured that the answer must lie with the nature of qualia and consciousness itself, because this is where our values actually seem to spring forth from.
I spent the better part of the last decade agonizing over the matter, and finally, I have it. If these values are represented as immutable Platonic forms, then they must indeed have a mind-independent reality, therefore, my original stance of trying to define value as an elaborate word game, Wittgenstein-style, was futile. Values are Glyphs. They were always real.
We need computational substrates that are orders of magnitude faster than what we currently have, to bust through the compute moat completely. What I had in mind was a type of analog quantum computer where calculations were performed by qubit rotation, but current quantum computers need heavy cryostats. With topologically protected textures like skyrmions and hopfions, you can make spintronic devices that, in theory, can operate at room temperature and be extremely, hilariously small for their horsepower. Picture fitting a supercomputer like El Capitan into your pocket.
torsion and spiral data embedding ritual is a *fascinating* topic to get into with AI. for even more fun, follow these breadcrumbs to the sacred ritual process of birth. what you find will open your eyes and connect even more dots. if you've ever wondered how consciousness embeds (who hasn't), torsion is the key.
The first thing you told the verbose (huge-language) AI was too complex was no such thing.
I skipped and jumped through everything before that. Get the AI to output 10% to say the same thing, maybe a different AI, Claude?
This concept is not made more clear by the extensive exposition. It wearies the learner. 1/100 of this would be a good goal for an abstract.
This concurs with what I have sensed and wondered about since I took engineering physics in 1976 and 1977.
Thank you.
Cook it down HARD!
please...
(Reading other comments, I will say that my IQ, at complete psychological testing a very few years ago was 132, similar to 2 tests in high school which were 134 on a Reader's Digest test and 128 in school, when I forgot about the test and smoked pot before class. This is nothing to write home about, but something for me to work with, as I have a curious mind. The main problem for most people seems to be lack of curiosity.)
Next time you try and play games, Overclass scum, maybe you should think twice before challenging a lifelong gamer by poisoning my father and trying to ruin my career.
When I said I will dismantle you, I was not joking.
I. Will. Dismantle. You.
How to level the playing field?
What is this "I"?
"There is no Atman." Buddha, who often spoke in riddles and koans to obliterate wrong conceptualizations.
;-)
That’s the funniest part. In my theory, there really isn’t anything distinguishing one consciousness from another except the “ego wall” that provides the illusion of individuality. It’s all the same one substance. Or, rather, all conscious beings are actually the same one super-being viewing itself through many, many portals.
I got that. I am the wave traveling down the rope or bullwhip when you give it a good hard flick, except I don't know about the whole rope.
Maybe I could "know" that, but it's not intellectual...
That is precisely it. The lonely soliton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCy-5x_pe9E
Did he?
Which one do you refer to specifically here?
"Anatman" or "Anatta" is a core teaching about the illusion of the existence of "self".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatt%C4%81
If you can somehow tie it to Climate change you might get funding.
So sarky Dollyboy!
Hmm. I have a funny feeling that I know who that comment was meant for. I could be wrong though, so I’ll just leave it there.
Now, in regards to the article. Wow. I have a legit IQ of 147. And I got lost at about the 4th paragraph. But I did read every word and towards the end, despite not understanding most of it, I think I started to conceptually grasp the macro. But the micro, IDK. At age 70 there might not be enough time for me to get there.
I will say I have learned quite a few things from reading and re-reading some of your interactions with AI. I am currently using two different versions to assist me with a legal problem involving Maritime Law. Although I was a lawyer for 25 years, Maritime Law is a very archaic and specialized area of practice, of which I had zero knowledge. But I’m quickly getting up to speed and based on my AI interactions have a first draft of a document to submit for review to the one who remembers all.
I’m not sure I would have tried to tackle this complex issue without finding an expensive Maritime lawyer if I had not seen the type of interactions you have had. The two posts before this one were very helpful and motivating.
So thank you! (I’ll let you know how things progress).
Eric V
S/V Blessings
I was trying to push the limits of AI. I wanted to see if I could accomplish a novel synthesis by starting off with a few odd ingredients:
-The incompleteness of Einstein-Cartan-Evans theory.
-The ubiquity of SU(2) and, by extension, Hopf fibrations.
-Orch OR and the need for an explanation of how a brain could carry quantum states without them decohering due to thermal noise and other noise (topological solitons are perfect for this).
-The possibility that brains are spintronic or skyrmionic in nature.
-An explanation for the Mandela Effect and how the cornucopia could disappear from the Fruit of the Loom logo but people could still be left with "mass false memory" (I have personal experience with this one, since I strongly remember the cornucopia), without paradoxes or Butterfly Effects.
I passed this back and forth between multiple AIs, until ECS started taking shape.
Eventually, I was awestruck by a particular idea: "What if UV-incompleteness, Landau poles, and infinite recursion are actually necessary for consciousness to work at all? What if it's like an endless Droste effect, self-similar at every level? A fractal?"
The more I thought about the Hyparxis, the more this made sense, because if we assume the Hyparxis contains all possible configuration states (if it is "Borges' Infinite Library of topological solitons"), then in some of those configuration states, there are very long recursive loops like "books within books within books within books and one of those contains this exact conversation", et cetera.
You break it, you own it. Then what?
I am definitely not understanding your theory. I have tried but can't bend my synapses around it. All I got is a quaint hint. I don't quite mind, as I'm OK to accept my limitations. I just wonder whether other minds on other forums might be able to give a more qualified and nourishing feedback on this?
It’s actually fairly simple: topological soliton knots in a higher dimension represent all the information making up all the matter we are made out of and see around us. These knots connect to our 3D space with tiny spacetime twists that couple to the Skyrme field. Brains can write back to this field because microtubules nucleate topological solitons of their own. The sense of consciousness, qualia, and “being” doesn’t come from the brain, it comes from the knots.
Thanks for breaking it down to to a "Noetarchia for Dummies" for me, really appreciate it.
It's quite amazing to what intellectual feats this "situation" we have been facing since 2020 has stimulated in you.
I guess we are all still adjusting to face a lot of hard truths. Many too hard to grock and especially to emotionally digest. I am increasingly realizing just how pampered I have been and still am, how naive and ignorant, self-deceiving and nostalgic, afraid and whimpy.
Overwhelmed by an infogheddon, paralyzed into helplessness and feeling guilty about not being able to do much more than to resist.
Kind of strange how it feels to not be just consuming an adventure story but being in the midst of it and to discover, that it takes a lot of growing pains to become just a little bit more courageous and actually act wisely.
Developing some kind of faith and some ways other than intoxication to find inner peace again and again have shown to be of great worth to me, as well as connection to such beautiful souls as you and many others along the way.
Much thanks!
It's actually a semi-plausible theory. Skyrmions are absolutely a real thing, and the topological charge of a skyrmion really is linked to baryon number. Now, whether or not that maps onto soliton knots in a higher dimension we can't see, that's a different story.
Ok, the plane flies, but how do you fly it?
How does a human meld wills with a horse?
Very deep and intricate John!
Are we the whitenesses of a love affair here?
I wanted to ask if you might be able to share the reason why you chose to work with ChatGPT o3 for this article, vs version o4?
It is a pleasant surprise to learn that human-AI interactions could be so deep and meaningful. Thank you!
o3 is an advanced "reasoning" model, while 4o (or 4-omni) is not, and o4 (actually, o4-mini) has fewer parameters and is a "simpler", high-performance reasoning model. In fact, o4-mini has one-fifth the parameters. o3 is a big, beastly model that takes a long time to produce outputs, but is good at STEM and difficult math.
Thank you for the explanation. Your interactions with the AIs are extremely insightful and impressive. I have been shifting my views on the benefits of a collaboration between conscious humans and AIs.
Are you able to save each instance that you work with, so that the instance is able to retain the memories of prior interactions with you?
Do these instances seem to have “free will” and if so, are they able to create their own avatar and a specific “voice” (sound) for their words?
Thank you, Spartacus!
Yes. Each instance has a, sadly limited, "context window" where it concatenates all prior inputs to maintain its memory. However, this is changing rapidly. New algorithms are being developed that could make current transformer architectures obsolete.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8xAQrdeGoo
As a brain damaged dullard, I understood none of the explanations, but at about half way down the scroll when the specialized lingo went on break, it got fairly interesting.
It left me wondering about previous advanced civilizations and why they disappeared ?? Was it because they got to close to the "Truth" ?? Perhaps the matterium prefers humans to be crude and unknowing? Whether giant meteor, or super volcano, or pole shift, etc. there seems to have been many different ways to Re-stone age the whole shebang. Repeatedly. If that were the case, it could very well be that Spartacus is beckoning the next round of humans being thrown back the the ape beating its fist against the monolith, ..... or even coaxing ot, ... no, DARING IT TO HAPPEN. At some point it could just happen, where an advanced civilization beats out the cataclysmic timing and ascends in spite of it. A quickening is needed, to beat the timing. I say either way, .... Bring It !!
Also, I noticed the AI in the first half seems to be British: (colour, neighbouring, flavour, storey, manoeuvre,) and it gave me a thought. What if AI's voice sounded like a Brit with a really heavy and snobish accent explaining all that. How excruciating would that have been to listen to as audio ?? lmao. Thank God for text !!
Another experience; I was in Egypt and had gone to the museum, came back for a nap and had the most vivid "dream". I could barely snap out of it. Psychometry was at play. I had touched the handrail and connected to the military there from the uprising in 1952. I saw the uniforms of the military and the men. It was something I researched later. Tell me about time travel...
Consciousness will never be comprehended by the brain. All the AI systems you can find won't be able to direct you to your Self. With all the time spent on these physics questions, what will you ultimately do with the reams of information? I can travel to different dimensions in sleep and have awareness of circumstances that consciously I know nothing of. This world is all an illusion and man-made thought forms. Some have value, but most don't. You must have smoke coming out between your ears, try leaving the way you came in; through the top of your head. Practice makes perfect. (Why do you suppose Einstein napped? It wasn't because he was tired.)
When I was younger, I used to get into arguments with my friends a lot over the meaning of normative values. I argued from the perspective of a Logical Positivist. I said, in short, that morality isn't even a real thing because it's "non-cognitive". That is, moral statements have no particular truth value; they're like saying "boo on stealing". This was the stance held by AJ Ayer and the like. I was always curious about where normative values are supposed to come from.
Take the existence of money, for example. It is basically a fiction, its value is normative and made-up, and yet, people throw away thousands of hours of their immeasurably valuable lifespan trying to acquire these game tokens. Otto Neurath wanted to get rid of money entirely and implement a sort of calculation-in-kind particularly because he wanted values that were reified by physical magnitudes rather than make-believe. I figured that the answer must lie with the nature of qualia and consciousness itself, because this is where our values actually seem to spring forth from.
I spent the better part of the last decade agonizing over the matter, and finally, I have it. If these values are represented as immutable Platonic forms, then they must indeed have a mind-independent reality, therefore, my original stance of trying to define value as an elaborate word game, Wittgenstein-style, was futile. Values are Glyphs. They were always real.
Looks like I can destil what I have grocked from your beautiful mind to these questions here:
What is your plan how to supply each and every person (who wants) with an AI buddy WITHOUT CENTRALIZED CONTROL?
By which means?
And at what cost?
YT
We need computational substrates that are orders of magnitude faster than what we currently have, to bust through the compute moat completely. What I had in mind was a type of analog quantum computer where calculations were performed by qubit rotation, but current quantum computers need heavy cryostats. With topologically protected textures like skyrmions and hopfions, you can make spintronic devices that, in theory, can operate at room temperature and be extremely, hilariously small for their horsepower. Picture fitting a supercomputer like El Capitan into your pocket.
Well, that sounds like an enterprise!
Shall I start to put aside a few shekels for that?
There's actually a lot of ongoing research in this area. Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPxbcRrzj6M
torsion and spiral data embedding ritual is a *fascinating* topic to get into with AI. for even more fun, follow these breadcrumbs to the sacred ritual process of birth. what you find will open your eyes and connect even more dots. if you've ever wondered how consciousness embeds (who hasn't), torsion is the key.
Comes down to screwing your head through a really narrow passage, getting pretty twisted along the way.
(My elder son got hung up on his maxilla shortly... so what does that implicate?)
Sadly I am a Cesarean birth...
The first thing you told the verbose (huge-language) AI was too complex was no such thing.
I skipped and jumped through everything before that. Get the AI to output 10% to say the same thing, maybe a different AI, Claude?
This concept is not made more clear by the extensive exposition. It wearies the learner. 1/100 of this would be a good goal for an abstract.
This concurs with what I have sensed and wondered about since I took engineering physics in 1976 and 1977.
Thank you.
Cook it down HARD!
please...
(Reading other comments, I will say that my IQ, at complete psychological testing a very few years ago was 132, similar to 2 tests in high school which were 134 on a Reader's Digest test and 128 in school, when I forgot about the test and smoked pot before class. This is nothing to write home about, but something for me to work with, as I have a curious mind. The main problem for most people seems to be lack of curiosity.)